Tweed Champ (5F1) in Europe?

[tunghaichuan***]

Yep, looks like it. Another thing that worries me about a kit (besides getting electrocuted, etc.) is that it's resale value is very very low compared to the initial cost.

If that is a major consideration, then I wouldn't build a kit. Most of the time you're lucky if you can get half of what you put into it. Looking at it from a buyer's point of view, they don't know how skilled the person doing the assembly was. They don't know if there are any hidden problems, or even potential problems.

I've actually emailed the TAD guys and asked for a quote if they build the kit themselves and ship the finished product to me, and they came up with 260 EUR for the build alone (that's roughly $350). Would that be a reasonable price for that sort of thing, or just their way of telling me no without saying no?

That's a fair price. It takes a while to build one of those amps, despite the low level of complexity. Figure it takes at least 10 hours or so. At the minimum, the tech is making $35/hour which isn't bad. Of course the longer it takes, the less the tech makes but I think someone who has build that amp several times before and is used to working on amps should be able to crank that circuit out in 10 hours or less.

The Ceriatone is roughly the same ammount before shipping too, if I get a cabinet and everything from them.

So really, it depends on your needs/desires. Do you want a fairly accurate replica? Do you want a versatile tone machine? Will the small speaker be okay tone wise? Etc.

As for American-made products and their prices, I'm finding out the hard way that they're actually not that expensive compared to the alternative. The quote for the pre-built TAD kit I've got from them was 823 EUROs for the amp + 22 EUROs for shipping, and a Fender 57 Champ is 900 EUROs in Europe. A Victoria 518 is 990 EUROs. So if I'd really have no choice but to get up in the 800+ EUROs, I'd rather get something that will keep it's resale value rather than some noname kit.

If resale is important to you, and it seems like it is, you might look for a used Victoria or Fender amp. Either is going to keep a fairly high resale value, unlike the kit amp, which you will take a big hit. It will never be worth anywhere near what you paid for it. You may be able to find a decent used Fender or Victoria.

Obviously, the drill is not the main problem, but rather just one in a series of shortcomings I feel I have as a builder.

I guess the only way that financially makes sense (though sense doesn't seem like a word I should continue to use in connection with this thing) is to get the kit, try to get it right the first time, when there are no dangerous voltages in the caps, etc. - and if I screw up get it to a tech to fix it, which would hopefully cost less than the build would.

That is a good way to go, but only if you are 100% sure you will build it correctly. The problem is that if you make a seemingly minor mistake, you could cause lots of damage to the amp. I've heard of first-time builders shorting out transformers, and those are the most expensive part of the amp. There may be collateral damage as well, and other parts that would have to be replaced. Kit amps can go from being a real bargain to an endless money pit in a hurry. Not trying to be the voice of gloom and doom, but I do want to give you some realistic, possible scenarios as a first time amp builder.

Having said all that, if it were my money, I would look at first buying a used Fender or Victoria. If you can't then I would save up the extra cash to get a either a new Fender or Victoria.

Building amps is a fun hobby, but it isn't a good way to save money. Nor is it a good investment.

Just my $.02 as a long-time amp building hobbyist.

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That's a fair price. It takes a while to build one of those amps, despite the low level of complexity. Figure it takes at least 10 hours or so. At the minimum, the tech is making $35/hour which isn't bad. Of course the longer it takes, the less the tech makes but I think someone who has build that amp several times before and is used to working on amps should be able to crank that circuit out in 10 hours or less.

You're probably right, however there were two reviews on the TAD website for the kit. One of the reviewers said it took him 6 hours to build, and the other one said it took him 5. Assuming that the TAD builder is at least as good as the second guy, that would be $175 at $35/hour, which is half price. And that doesn't take into account the fact that A) the TAD builder is probably generally faster and more experienced than a random customer, and B) he doesn't need to waste any time reading the instructions since he probably designed the amp and picked the components in the first place. But that's nitpicking on my part, and I'll leave it at that. We'll agree that TAD's was a fair price, just that it took me out of my budget range.

So really, it depends on your needs/desires. Do you want a fairly accurate replica? Do you want a versatile tone machine? Will the small speaker be okay tone wise? Etc.

An accurate replica. I've played a Victoria 518 and basically want an amp just like that. Don't care for versatile tone machines, I love simplicity (one pickup guitars and amps that just nail it with just a volume knob). I have no problem with the low wattage or the speaker, and actually prefer the small size that lets you carry it around. I'm neither confused about what I want, nor unsure if the classic 5F1 amp tone suits me.

If resale is important to you, and it seems like it is, you might look for a used Victoria or Fender amp. Either is going to keep a fairly high resale value, unlike the kit amp, which you will take a big hit. It will never be worth anywhere near what you paid for it. You may be able to find a decent used Fender or Victoria.

Yes, I'm afraid resale is important to me. Unfortunately. It's a shaky economy, and I'm not a rich person (obviously ). I wouldn't want to have to sell it, but if I'm forced to, the resale value does count.

So yes, I'll be looking for a used Victoria or Fender, or come brighter times I'll buy a new one. If anyone's got a good deal for me on one of those please let me know .

Thank you tunghaichuan, your advice has been extremely useful. I really appreciate your help!

[tunghaichuan***]

An accurate replica. I've played a Victoria 518 and basically want an amp just like that. Don't care for versatile tone machines, I love simplicity (one pickup guitars and amps that just nail it with just a volume knob). I have no problem with the low wattage or the speaker, and actually prefer the small size that lets you carry it around. I'm neither confused about what I want, nor unsure if the classic 5F1 amp tone suits me.

Great, knowing what you want in an amp is a useful thing to know. I had the chance to play a buddy's real '58 tweed Champ, it sounded glorious. A newly made one will take a little while to break in. If you luck out and find a nice used one, it may already be broken in.

Yes, I'm afraid resale is important to me. Unfortunately. It's a shaky economy, and I'm not a rich person (obviously ). I wouldn't want to have to sell it, but if I'm forced to, the resale value does count.

So yes, I'll be looking for a used Victoria or Fender, or come brighter times I'll buy a new one. If anyone's got a good deal for me on one of those please let me know .

Even though the Victoria is about 100 Euros more than the Fender, I would take a Victoria over the Fender any day. The Victoria is built like the original; the Vic is a more accurate copy.

Thank you tunghaichuan, your advice has been extremely useful. I really appreciate your help!

You're very welcome. I was approaching this a hobbyist who has built at least 10-15 different versions of the tweed Champ/Princeton circuit. I've gotten more money invested in this that I'll ever be able to get back.

Let us know what you come up with.

[tunghaichuan***]

Update:

Just found this link today:

http://store.marshamps.com/product_i...kal4jddgp3v906

Complete kit from Marsh amps. You'd have to get the European power transformer upgrade for $20, but at $455 before shipping it might be a good deal. As you know, the Tweed Champ's cabinet is not very big, so shipping might be reasonable. You'd have to check with Marsh to see what it would be to Europe.

[red]

Complete kit from Marsh amps. You'd have to get the European power transformer upgrade for $20, but at $455 before shipping it might be a good deal. As you know, the Tweed Champ's cabinet is not very big, so shipping might be reasonable. You'd have to check with Marsh to see what it would be to Europe.

Thanks! Will check with them, definitely looks like something to consider.
Sorry for the late reply, have been very busy the last couple of days.

[red]

You're very welcome. I was approaching this a hobbyist who has built at least 10-15 different versions of the tweed Champ/Princeton circuit. I've gotten more money invested in this that I'll ever be able to get back.

Let us know what you come up with.

After much talking with various kit vendors in Europe and the US, and with Victoria and Fender distribuitors, I ended up pulling the trigger on the Tube Amp Doctor kit. It looks like it's using solid components, and frankly it's all I can afford right now and it doesn't look like I'll be able to afford a more expensive one in the foreseeable future. Hopefully with attention and proper regard for safety I should end up with a good amp.

Meanwhile I've built myself a capacitor discharge tool out of a pair of insulated alligator-clip-ended wires and a 5W 22kOhm resistor that I've put many layers of insulating tape around. I intend to hook one alligator clip to the chassis (ground) and put the other one on the end of a wooden chopstick when discharging caps, then check the results with a digital multimeter, so hopefully that'll be safe enough.

Also, I've been reading these:

http://angela.com/thetrainwreckpages.aspx
http://www.geofex.com/tubeampfaq/taffram.htm
http://www.aikenamps.com/TechInfo_2.htm
http://www.freewebs.co.uk/valvewizard/index.html
http://www.diyguitarist.com/Misc/J_Darr.htm
http://ax84.com/p1.html
http://www.tubebooks.org/technical_books_online.htm

I still have about a week I think until the package gets delivered, so if there's anything else it would help to read I'd really appreciate the advice.

Thank you to everyone who replied in this thread, thanks for your time and suggestions!