57 Classic, Burstbuckers, or...?

[FrankenFretter***]

I love the sound of my 57 Classic, and 57 Classic + pickups in my Epi Tribute LP. Now that I've decided that I'm not satisfied with the GFS VEH pickups that I've installed in my Agile AL3000, I think I may actually spend the money on a set of Genuine Gibson pickups. I know Eric is going to be flabbergasted, but for what I want, I'm not sure that a "budget" set of pups is going to cut it. It may be that I just picked the wrong set of GFS pickups for what I wanted, but I know for a fact that the 57s in my LP sound superb.

I've been looking at the 57s online, and also looking at the Burstbuckers as well. They also have the 490 Alnico II series that may also be a contender. Has anyone done a side by side comparison of the 57 Classics and the Burstbuckers? Or the 490s? I probably can't go wrong with a set of 57s, but I could go with something that sounded similar but slightly different, just for the sake of variety.

Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

[otaypanky***]

If you have the stock pots and caps in the guitar Sean I would start by replacing them with an RS or WCR wiring kit. No matter what pups you have in it, you won't get the best out of them with average or not so great stock pots. You might be surprised at how good the pups you already have can sound ~
I also like my humbucker guitars wired 50's style as opposed to modern
Good luck with it

[sumitomo]

That is great advise panky,it is often the stuff that's outa sight that makes a BIG difference.Sumi

[hubberjub***]

I definitely agree with the Panky's comment about putting in a higher quality wiring kit. Beyond that, I'd suggest broadening your search. The '57's aren't bad pickups but I think there are a lot of better options out there. I wouldn't even consider the 490s. They come stock in a lot of the lower end Gibsons and they just sound lifeless to me.

[ZMAN]

I have tried all of them except the 57s. I have recently installed a set of Burstbucker 1 and 2s in my Classic. It had the original Ceramic open coil pickups 496R, and 500T. I own 3 other guitars with the 490R and 498T set in them. One is a Studio with a chambered body, one is a 96 Standard with a solid body, and the third is an Epi Elitist which came with the US 490,498 set rebadged as 50SR, and 60ST.
I also installed an RS guitar works Vintage Kit with the Bumble Bee .022 Caps, wired 50s style in the Classic when I changed the pickups.
I really like the BB1 and 2s in my Classic. There is not a lot of difference in the output between the pickups.
I really like the 490, 498 combo in all of my other guitars. And would not change them. They sound really good and I like the extra output of the Briddge pickup.
I also have a set of PAFs in a 1990 ES 335 that may have been the forerunner of the 57 set.
I will post a little chart with the output of each one, and you can see where it is going.
I would recommend a set of 490,498s because there are lots of them out there and they would be reasonably cheap to pick up. A lot of guys change them out then regret it. Also the RS kit is a huge difference especially on the Agile. But remember the hole size is different for the Asian pots VS the US pots. RS mentions that on their site. It may require drilling out the holes for the pots.
I will give the DC resistance Neck then Bridge.
ES335 7.11, 8.76
Standard 7.66, 13.31
Classic with Ceramics. 8.32, 14.59
Classic with BB1,2 7.37, 8.07
Studio 7.50. 13.93
Epi 7.69, 13.39
I hope this helps. I really can't see putting a set of BBs in, since they are very close to the 57s. Unless you really want that tone.

[FrankenFretter***]

When I swapped the stock pups for the GFSs, I did the 50s wiring. The Agile came with Alpha pots, which have a fairly good reputation. Still, I will consider changing out the pots. I already have Sprague caps, so I'm not sure if there would be that much benefit in changing them to bumblebees or Mallorys. Thanks for the advice, Fretters. Definitely food for thought,

[mainestratman]

I love my uncovered 57's.

[ZMAN]

To save a lot of hassle I would stick with the Alpha pots. Did you get the DC resistance of the GFS pickups? You might want to try out a set of 490s in a production Gibby they still put them in a lot of guitars.
IF my Classic had them in it from the start they would still be there.

[FrankenFretter***]

I love my uncovered 57's.

My Tribute has the covered pickups, but I plan on putting uncovered zebras in the Agile. The GFS pickups I have in there now are zebras. Something about those zebras in a CSB LP that just looks SO right...

[FrankenFretter***]

To save a lot of hassle I would stick with the Alpha pots. Did you get the DC resistance of the GFS pickups? You might want to try out a set of 490s in a production Gibby they still put them in a lot of guitars.
IF my Classic had them in it from the start they would still be there.

Thanks, Zman. I will see if I can find a guitar that has the 490s, and probably one with the BBs as well. I didn't measure the DC resistance of the GFS pickups, but if I can remember to bring my multimeter home from work I might just do that this weekend. According to Guitar Fetish,

Bridge is wound to 11.2K, Neck to 9.4K

Maybe they're too hot for what I'm looking for. I believe the 57s are more of a vintage wound pickup.

[Jimi75]

I have tried burstbuckers, Seymour Duncan Antiquities, SD Jeff Becks, 498Ts. BUT the Calssic 57 was the bomb! I totally love that hb.

[Eric***]

I know Eric is going to be flabbergasted, but for what I want, I'm not sure that a "budget" set of pups is going to cut it.

Heresy!! I have almost nothing useful to add to this discussion, but I figured I'd chime in anyway.

Despite my attempts at pickup replacement and other guitar maintenance, it's mostly a mystery to me. Of the three electrics I've owned, the one with the most ***-tastic tone was the one with the highest-output pickups, something like 11.5k in the bridge. I wanted to try active pups in the past, but my ideas are changing now.

If it was me, I'd measure the DC resistance in the tribute and buy something with the same specs. Bear in mind that you will probably never recoup the money you spend on modding, particularly for this guitar.

Not that you asked for my opinion, but there it is.

[ZMAN]

My Tribute has the covered pickups, but I plan on putting uncovered zebras in the Agile. The GFS pickups I have in there now are zebras. Something about those zebras in a CSB LP that just looks SO right...

Keep in mind that the open coils will be brighter. I personally like the aged covers on a CSB, with the black pickgaurd and switch.
I took a look at the Gibson chart for pickup output, and it shows that the BB2 and BB3 are about the same output as the 57 an the 57 plus.

[Eric***]

Of the three electrics I've owned, the one with the most ***-tastic tone was the one with the highest-output pickups, something like 11.5k in the bridge.

To clarify, "***-tastic" = bad.

[Bloozcat]

Changing the wiring/caps,pots, etc. is always a good idea before buying new pickups (a lot cheaper too!).

Good pots, a 50's wiring scheme, and PIO caps will make a difference in your tone. You don't necessarily have to spring for bumblebees or black beauties either for the caps. NOS Sprague Vitamin Q's (or Hyrels, Goodmans, etc), or even the less expensive Mil-spec Russian PIO caps will all sound good.

After using Vishay/Sprague Orange Drops and Mallory 150's for a few years I have now switched to the NOS Vitamin Q's. There is a difference in tone to the ear. It's a warmer, thicker, less "hi-fi" and sterile sounding.

[FrankenFretter***]

Heresy!! I have almost nothing useful to add to this discussion, but I figured I'd chime in anyway.

Despite my attempts at pickup replacement and other guitar maintenance, it's mostly a mystery to me. Of the three electrics I've owned, the one with the most ***-tastic tone was the one with the highest-output pickups, something like 11.5k in the bridge. I wanted to try active pups in the past, but my ideas are changing now.

If it was me, I'd measure the DC resistance in the tribute and buy something with the same specs. Bear in mind that you will probably never recoup the money you spend on modding, particularly for this guitar.

Not that you asked for my opinion, but there it is.

I knew I'd hear from you, Eric. Hence the bait...
You're correct about not recouping the money spent on the guitar. I never sell my guitars anyway, but if I did, I still have the stock pickups to put back in her.

[FrankenFretter***]

Changing the wiring/caps,pots, etc. is always a good idea before buying new pickups (a lot cheaper too!).

Good pots, a 50's wiring scheme, and PIO caps will make a difference in your tone. You don't necessarily have to spring for bumblebees or black beauties either for the caps. NOS Sprague Vitamin Q's (or Hyrels, Goodmans, etc), or even the less expensive Mil-spec Russian PIO caps will all sound good.

After using Vishay/Sprague Orange Drops and Mallory 150's for a few years I have now switched to the NOS Vitamin Q's. There is a difference in tone to the ear. It's a warmer, thicker, less "hi-fi" and sterile sounding.

The whole paper in oil thing seems steeped in controversy. Some claim the difference is very noticeable, some say it's all completely subjective. The Tribute has Mallory 150s, and I have zero complaints about that tone. I didn't realize, however, that the open coils sound brighter. I guess that makes sense.

BC, do you know a good source for PIO caps, and some idea of how much I should expect to pay? Is it really worth it to replace the Alpha pots?

[Heywood Jablomie]

The open-coil vs covered pickup thing is debated almost as much as the capacitor thing. My money says nobody could reliably tell the differences blindfolded. But whatever floats one's boat......

[otaypanky***]

Changing the wiring/caps,pots, etc. is always a good idea before buying new pickups (a lot cheaper too!).

Good pots, a 50's wiring scheme, and PIO caps will make a difference in your tone. You don't necessarily have to spring for bumblebees or black beauties either for the caps. NOS Sprague Vitamin Q's (or Hyrels, Goodmans, etc), or even the less expensive Mil-spec Russian PIO caps will all sound good.

After using Vishay/Sprague Orange Drops and Mallory 150's for a few years I have now switched to the NOS Vitamin Q's. There is a difference in tone to the ear. It's a warmer, thicker, less "hi-fi" and sterile sounding.

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