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Thread: Long Term Learning Projects

  1. #1
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    Default Long Term Learning Projects

    So how many others have experienced the situation I am about to describe... You have a piece of music that is one of your all time favorite pieces of music, and you want to learn how to play it, only there is no sheet music or tablature readily available, so you have to learn it note by note on your own, and it is a LONG piece of music with many different sections.

    For example, my long term project is learning all of Miles Davis' "In a Silent Way" album. I have figured out the 2 minute intro McLaughlin plays, but after that, I am still exploring for correct notes/chords. Every now and then when I practice, I try to hash out a new piece of this masterpiece, sometimes more succesfully than others, in hopes that I can eventually put it all together into the whole piece. I just remind myself that, ultimately, there are only 12 possibilities each time for which note it's going to be [finding which specific "A#" or which "C" etc, is part 2 of the process]. It's slow but it's fun. I've also taken to putting the tuner next to the speakers and finding notes that way, or running the song through garage band and using the electronic tuner to find notes. It's excrucitatingly slow, but is it ever rewarding to add pieces to the song.

    Anyone else have a long-term learning project like this, and if so, how's it going?
    "I happen to have perfect situational awareness, Lana. Which cannot be taught, by the way. Like a poet's ... mind for ... to make the perfect words." - Sterling Archer

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    Ahh, I don't have your patience! I am just too lazy. I guess I just love to improvise and make things up.

    I admire your attitude and focus.
    The Law of Gravity is nonsense. No such law exists. If I think I float, and you think I float, then it happens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G
    So how many others have experienced the situation I am about to describe... You have a piece of music that is one of your all time favorite pieces of music, and you want to learn how to play it, only there is no sheet music or tablature readily available, so you have to learn it note by note on your own, and it is a LONG piece of music with many different sections.

    For example, my long term project is learning all of Miles Davis' "In a Silent Way" album. I have figured out the 2 minute intro McLaughlin plays, but after that, I am still exploring for correct notes/chords. Every now and then when I practice, I try to hash out a new piece of this masterpiece, sometimes more succesfully than others, in hopes that I can eventually put it all together into the whole piece. I just remind myself that, ultimately, there are only 12 possibilities each time for which note it's going to be [finding which specific "A#" or which "C" etc, is part 2 of the process]. It's slow but it's fun. I've also taken to putting the tuner next to the speakers and finding notes that way, or running the song through garage band and using the electronic tuner to find notes. It's excrucitatingly slow, but is it ever rewarding to add pieces to the song.

    Anyone else have a long-term learning project like this, and if so, how's it going?

    I'm like Robert, but WORSE!

    I am so lazy I just make up my own songs, vs trying to figure out others..

    My first gig ever I was a kid and I had a guitar for maybe 2 weeks.. I lived in a tourist town and this guy owned an outfit where he would load people into this big military type vehical, and take them up this incredibly steep and scenic rocky mountain roadless pass.. at the top they would eat steaks and drink beer,

    He was trying to find a 'musician' to come play 'folk songs'.. I applied.. I only knew a few basic chords at the time..

    I got the gig.. 15 bucks a night and a free steak and lots of little girls running around .. I was in heaven.. except for one thing.. I didn't know ANY songs, let alone folk songs..

    I was pretty nervous the first night, for a lot of reasons.. then it came time to 'play' around the campfire.. and I was just ON.. I asked 'what does everyone want to hear.. and lots of people made suggestions, and I pulled out of my hat.. 'oh ya, I know that one I think'.. and I started just playing songs (basicly in C G and F) and making up words about Dogs and stuff.. people were loving it..

    One old woman came to me at the end of the night and slipped me 20 dollars and told me she hadn't heard 'that' song I did since her grandfather used to play her to sleep with it..

    If course there WAS no songs.. I was just making it ALL up..

    I learned a lot of lessons that night, and applied it most every gig since..

    get em drunk, get em involved, get em curious and then tell them it is exactly what they asked for..

    ________

    Sorry to ramble, haven't thought about it for a few decades now.. *G*

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    Regaring lenght of a piece of music in minutes I haven't done/transcribed anything longer that 10 minutes. Regarding the aspect with finding the right notes and working without tabs, I did that with SRV's Lenny. Sometimes I like this approach, but most of the time I just want to play and do not have the patience to work things out that way. I have a well educated practicing manner though.
    "A lot of people in the industry want to blame downloading for the state of the business. But I think if most music wasn't shit to begin with people wouldn't be downloading it for free," - Corey Taylor (Slipknot)

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    Hmmmmm........had the same problem......but not the patience........

    I invariably start as you have........ then get bored...... then improvise to get some thing that is close, or sounds right in the piece.......

    I have found it easier as I build up my knowledge of scales and modes...although in jazz...anything goes.........

    I find now I prefer to admire a piece, solo, lick or riff and then put my interpretation in.......in other words....be me......

    R-of-G, I admire your tenacity.
    You don't stop playing the guitar because you are old....You get old because you have stopped playing the guitar.

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    I too find little reward (just can't do it) in learning note for note. I do get key phrases and signature parts down as close as possible though, just not the whole song. If I find a part that is interesting, challenges me and I think it will be great to have in my arsenal of licks then I'll spend time on it.

    But then I realize that due to my age my memory is just not going to hang on to it anyway. I mean...a whole song...that's a long time to remember all those notes and beats and...what was I talking about?

    "No Tele For you." - The Tele Nazi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudman
    But then I realize that due to my age my memory is just not going to hang on to it anyway. I mean...a whole song...that's a long time to remember all those notes and beats and...what was I talking about?
    My gawd...there are those..... ..... .... again... the older people get... the more they understand.... my dots....

    huh.... wha.... wher...uhhh..


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    Quote Originally Posted by Justaguyin_nc
    My gawd...there are those..... ..... .... again... the older people get... the more they understand.... my dots....

    huh.... wha.... wher...uhhh..
    I jes.......lurv my..........dots...........

    Hey, Justaguyin.............don't you think those dots just add sumpin' to the bland words on the screen.........You know.........like....give it expression?
    You don't stop playing the guitar because you are old....You get old because you have stopped playing the guitar.

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    Heck, there are a couple of songs that I've been trying to learn for several years that I've actually got tab for! Mystery Train and The Girl from Ipanema are two songs I've loved since childhood which I've just never been able to get right...you'd think with tab I could do it...every so often I'll give those songs another go, and get a little closer to how they're supposed to actually sound.

    I've never had the patience or the ear to be able to figure stuff out note-for-note very well. An old friend of mine who plays keyboards has a real talent for doing that, he figured out all of ELP's "Tarkus" (which is a whole album side) - heck I can never even remember how to play a piece of music that long, much less figure it out by ear! He also figured out the theme song of the old sixties tv show "The Outer Limits" and programmed every single instrument's part into his sequencer...sounds amazing, exactly like its original arrangement with full orchestration.

    Wish I had the patience, and more importantly, the ears, to do that sort of thing.
    Electrics: Epiphone Les Paul Standard (w/S.D. pups - JB-4/bridge, SH-'59 neck), Fender Fat Strat (Mexican), Squier Fat Tele, Squier '51, Agile Valkyrie III, Ibanez Artcore AF75, Washburn OS OE30 Delta King, Dean Vendetta XM (w/ Dimarzios, D-Sonic/bridge, Air Norton/neck), Silvertone archtop (late 60s/early 70s), Titan EG-1 strat, Gibson G-3 bass, Fullerton strat

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    There are plenty of songs that I couldn't learn in their entirety, so I made utilitarian use of the riffs and progressions I could learn, and that has been a lot of fun. However, when it comes to "In a Silent Way" and "Mercy Mercy Mercy" [both wirtten by Joe Zawinul], it was all or nothing. One I can play, the other, much longer piece, I am still working on, but as rewarding practicing goes, adding even a single note to that is still more rewarding than a good improv can be [not that that isn't fun too]. most of my practice is improv oriented, though more and more when I feel like playing a "song" it's "In a Silent Way."
    "I happen to have perfect situational awareness, Lana. Which cannot be taught, by the way. Like a poet's ... mind for ... to make the perfect words." - Sterling Archer

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    At this stage, I do try to copy what an artist is doing note for note as best I can at least some of the time, because I can learn from it. Not that I can do it always. But what I am doing is pretty rudimentary still. I am trying to learn more and more of "Sultans of Swing" because I think I can learn a lot from Knopfler. Also, I continue to work to improve my Neil Young acoustic stuff (Old Man, Harvest era stuff) because I think I can learn skills there that I can apply elsewhere, and really enjoy trying to get what he was doing. Beyond the sheet music, I try to find Youtube vids to watch and see what I can see. Sheet music doesn't always seem to tell the whole tale. I watch the performance, try to get the basic gist of what is going on, and try to copy as much more as I can as I learn. That way, when I play improv or just songs for myself, I can incorporate skills as I learn them. I could see side 2 of Abbey Road being a long term project, but I haven't started that yet.
    Steve Thompson
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunvalleylaw
    At this stage, I do try to copy what an artist is doing note for note as best I can at least some of the time, because I can learn from it. Not that I can do it always. But what I am doing is pretty rudimentary still. I am trying to learn more and more of "Sultans of Swing" because I think I can learn a lot from Knoppfler. Also, I continue to work to improve my Neil Young acoustic stuff (Old Man, Harvest era stuff) because I think I can learn skills there that I can apply elsewhere, and really enjoy trying to get what he was doing. Beyond the sheet music, I try to find Youtube vids to watch and see what I can see. Sheet music doesn't always seem to tell the whole tale. I watch the performance, try to get the basic gist of what is going on, and try to copy as much more as I can as I learn. That way, when I play improv or just songs for myself, I can incorporate skills as I learn them. I could see side 2 of Abbey Road being a long term project, but I haven't started that yet.
    2 Notes on your excellent post Sunnyvalley...

    1. we can ALL learn a lot from Mark Knopfler. Though I have never been a fan of his tone, his licks are superb, and the afforementioned "Sultans of Swing" solo is a masterpiece.

    2. I have learned the so-called "Abbey Road Medley" and it is as rewarding as you think it will be. as I mentioned in a prev post, I am a HUGE Beatles fan, and my first songbook was a complete beatles' book. i wore out the pages for the abbey road and let it be stuff first.
    "I happen to have perfect situational awareness, Lana. Which cannot be taught, by the way. Like a poet's ... mind for ... to make the perfect words." - Sterling Archer

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G
    "In a Silent Way" and "Mercy Mercy Mercy" [both wirtten by Joe Zawinul]
    Great tunes R_of_G! I love Cannonball adderley's version of "Mercy Mercy Mercy"
    Electrics: Epiphone Les Paul Standard (w/S.D. pups - JB-4/bridge, SH-'59 neck), Fender Fat Strat (Mexican), Squier Fat Tele, Squier '51, Agile Valkyrie III, Ibanez Artcore AF75, Washburn OS OE30 Delta King, Dean Vendetta XM (w/ Dimarzios, D-Sonic/bridge, Air Norton/neck), Silvertone archtop (late 60s/early 70s), Titan EG-1 strat, Gibson G-3 bass, Fullerton strat

    Acoustics: Sigma DM-5 (Japanese), Silvertone archtop (early 50s), Yamaha FG-110 (Korean), Alvarez RD20 12 string, Silvertone (60s)

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitartist
    Great tunes R_of_G! I love Cannonball adderley's version of "Mercy Mercy Mercy"
    That is the one I learned to play [basically playing his horn lines and zawinul's chord phrasings from the fender rhodes. that particular version of that particular song stands atop the list as my single favorite piece of music. no other piece of music ever recorded can put a smile on my face faster than that song. what's cool is that zawinul also wrote my second fav [In a Silent Way], so technically speaking, he is my favorite song writer.
    "I happen to have perfect situational awareness, Lana. Which cannot be taught, by the way. Like a poet's ... mind for ... to make the perfect words." - Sterling Archer

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitartist
    Great tunes R_of_G! I love Cannonball adderley's version of "Mercy Mercy Mercy"
    I had never consciously knew the title of that song (though I have heard and enjoyed it) before and had not heard that version that I remember. It is really nice!

    Here is a link to a decent recording sound wise by an outfit called Cubic Jam:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSJFzg0CllI
    Steve Thompson
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    Guitars: Fender 60th Anniversary Std. Strat, Squier CVC Tele Hagstrom Viking Semi-hollow, Joshua beach guitar, Martin SPD-16TR Dreadnought
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    Effects and such: Boss: DS-1, CE-5, NS-2 and RC20XL looper, Digitech Bad Monkey, Korg AX1G Multi-effects, Berhinger: TU100 tuner, PB100 Clean Boost, Line 6 Toneport UX2, Electro Harmonix Little Big Muff Pi, DuhVoodooMan's Rabid Rodent Rat Clone, Zonkin Yellow Screamer Mk. II, MXR Carbon Copy Delay


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    - j. johnson

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G
    That is the one I learned to play [basically playing his horn lines and zawinul's chord phrasings from the fender rhodes. that particular version of that particular song stands atop the list as my single favorite piece of music. no other piece of music ever recorded can put a smile on my face faster than that song. what's cool is that zawinul also wrote my second fav [In a Silent Way], so technically speaking, he is my favorite song writer.

    Joe Zaniwul was in Cannonball Adderley's band, wasn't he? It's been a while since I've listened to the cd, but it seems like on the "Mercy Mercy Mercy" cd between songs Cannonball says something to that effect. (I suppose I could google it, but its more fun to ask you. ) That is a wonderful tune, hats off to you for learning it.
    Electrics: Epiphone Les Paul Standard (w/S.D. pups - JB-4/bridge, SH-'59 neck), Fender Fat Strat (Mexican), Squier Fat Tele, Squier '51, Agile Valkyrie III, Ibanez Artcore AF75, Washburn OS OE30 Delta King, Dean Vendetta XM (w/ Dimarzios, D-Sonic/bridge, Air Norton/neck), Silvertone archtop (late 60s/early 70s), Titan EG-1 strat, Gibson G-3 bass, Fullerton strat

    Acoustics: Sigma DM-5 (Japanese), Silvertone archtop (early 50s), Yamaha FG-110 (Korean), Alvarez RD20 12 string, Silvertone (60s)

    Amps: Alamo Capri (early 60s tube), Alamo Challenger (late 60s tube) Epiphone Valve Jr. Head (w/Peavey 1x10 cab & Realistic 2x6 cab), Fender Yale Reverb, Vox Pathfinder 15R, Marshall Lead 12, Behringer G110 V-Tone, Marshall MG15CD, Vox DA-5, Pignose 7-100, Marshall Bass 12

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitartist
    Joe Zaniwul was in Cannonball Adderley's band, wasn't he? It's been a while since I've listened to the cd, but it seems like on the "Mercy Mercy Mercy" cd between songs Cannonball says something to that effect. (I suppose I could google it, but its more fun to ask you. ) That is a wonderful tune, hats off to you for learning it.
    yes, zawinul played with adderley [that band recorded mercy mercy mercy] as well as with miles [on in a silent way, and other projects] as well as the band weather report.
    "I happen to have perfect situational awareness, Lana. Which cannot be taught, by the way. Like a poet's ... mind for ... to make the perfect words." - Sterling Archer

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    Here's a lesson you might enjoy, R_of_G...

    http://markweinguitarlessons.com/for...-2-Miles-Davis!

    (dredging up old threads today)

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    First post.
    Clear as the Driven Snow - Doobie Brothers.
    2+ years endevor and all tabbed now, just gotta learn the licks better.

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