6L6 Vs. EL84

[tunghaichuan***]

Not to discount what you're saying, but I've had the opposite experience:

I find EL84 amps to be more chimey than 6L6 based amps or 6V6 based amps. The classic examples are the Vox AC15 and AC30. Chime city. The Marshall 18W less so, though.

I find the 6L6 based amps kind of scooped sounding, at least the later Blackface Fenders. The true 5881 amps like the Bassman were more mid-rangy.

I don't find the 5F1 circuit to be chimey at all. The one real 5F1 I heard was very mid-rangy.

Does your 5F1 have a 6L6 in it? I ask because the 5F1 originally had a 6V6 in it.

tung

Indeed, the tubes are only part of the tone, the whole circuitry matters.
That being said, I prefer the Fendery 6L6 amps. I love small tweed Fender Champ style amps (about 5W) like nothing else.

Traditionally, the EL84 sound is more "Marshally" - less chime, compact mids. I also own a Peavey Classic 30 which is a nice enough giggable amp, and I do like it with Les Paul type guitars, but I'm always going to my 5F1 6L6 5W amp for a tonal high. I'm addicted to the chime .

Of course, there are ways to tricking them all with a subtle pedal in front, such as a well-designed booster with a tone control and judicious use of your guitar's tone knob.

So yes, I've ranted too much, but in a couple of words, what I love is: 5F1 6L6s.

[marnold***]

I find the 6L6 based amps kind of scooped sounding, at least the later Blackface Fenders. The true 5881 amps like the Bassman were more mid-rangy.

Is the scooped sound more a function of the 6L6s, the tone stack, or some other part of the amph?

[tunghaichuan***]

Is the scooped sound more a function of the 6L6s, the tone stack, or some other part of the amph?

The scooped Fender blackface tone is due partially to the circuit and partially to the inherent characteristics of the 6L6 tube. The 6L6 tube, at least the 6L6GC, has a stronger bottom end and less mids than an EL34 or even an EL84.

I think that EL84 tubes are chimey because they have a lot of top end, not so many mids and a relatively weak bottom end, IOW the tube emphasizes the top end. The EL34 is less chimey as it emphasizes the mids.

tung

[red]

Is the scooped sound more a function of the 6L6s, the tone stack, or some other part of the amph?

I would say that the 6L6 has a contribution to that, but it's very small. The main culprit is the tone stack. Before the 5F1 I had a small Fender Champ 600 RI which is a slightly modified blackface circuit with a very pronounced mid scoop. That's why I sold it and got the 5F1, actually. The 5F1 is a tweed, not a blackface model circuit, and it gives you more mids.

So IMHO the scooped thing is really a function of the blackface Champ circuit, not so much a function of the power tube.

As for the chime, by chime I don't really mean high end in itself. I mean shimmer - well, it's hard to explain sounds in words .

[tot_Ou_tard]

I would say that the 6L6 has a contribution to that, but it's very small. The main culprit is the tone stack. Before the 5F1 I had a small Fender Champ 600 RI which is a slightly modified blackface circuit with a very pronounced mid scoop. That's why I sold it and got the 5F1, actually. The 5F1 is a tweed, not a blackface model circuit, and it gives you more mids.

So IMHO the scooped thing is really a function of the blackface Champ circuit, not so much a function of the power tube.

As for the chime, by chime I don't really mean high end in itself. I mean shimmer - well, it's hard to explain sounds in words .

Ahhhh, shimmer. That's a different beast than chime. I'm a shimmer-hound, I love the stuff.


I have a Champion 600 reissue and a Gries 5, both champ-based with an 6V6.


The Gries 5 allows one to dial out the tonestack and so move between a blackface and something similar to a 5F1 tweed or any stop in between.

With the tonestack dialed out the amp has more mids & harmonic content & can get significantly louder.

My experience is that the 6V6 is a sweet, rich tube that in a single ended amp can shimmer 'tll there's no tomorrow.

I have only briefly owned an EL84-based amp (H&K 20th anniversary). I cannot really recall, but my recollections is that the clean channel on that amp was brighter & chimier.

[red]

I have only briefly owned an EL84-based amp (H&K 20th anniversary). I cannot really recall, but my recollections is that the clean channel on that amp was brighter & chimier.

With the outmost respect for your experience: brighter, definitely; chimier, no way .
Either that, or I've lost too much perceived high end in my ears .

EDIT: Sorry, I've missed the "clean channel" part - you might have a point there, I'm not sure how the clean channel uses the circuit but it's not chime-defficient, definitely. I still think that the 5F1 and other 6L6 based-amps are more chime-friendly, mind you. Perhaps chime means some low end factored in as well?

[tot_Ou_tard]

With the outmost respect for your experience: brighter, definitely; chimier, no way .
Either that, or I've lost too much perceived high end in my ears .

Well, I did preface my remark with some mumblings about how uncertain my recollection was .


I am trying to work out how many dimensions respect exists in---whether outmost is the same as utmost or perhaps just almost.

[red]

I am trying to work out how many dimensions respect exists in---whether outmost is the same as utmost or perhaps just almost.

I apologize, I definitely did not mean to start anything. English is not my native language and sometimes that shows regardless of my efforts. I meant "utmost", and it was not meant ironically.

[red]

Does your 5F1 have a 6L6 in it? I ask because the 5F1 originally had a 6V6 in it.

Yes, my 5F1 amp has a 6V6 in it.