HNPD: Cool Cat Transparent OD

[Robert****]

Danelectro has posted on TGP saying they will alter the circuit so that it's not a clone of Paul's pedal.

[tunghaichuan***]

I've been following this controversy on The Gear Page and freestompboxes.org, where someone reverse engineered the TO and discovered it was the same as the Timmy circuit.

I feel for Paul because I can understand how frustrated he feels in trying to feed his family with something that he designed only to have a large corporation copy it and sell it cheaper.

OTOH, I don't think it is fair to attack Danelectro for copying a circuit and not all the others who have cloned circuits (e.g. Ibanez Tube Screamer). In fact most of the "boutique" ODs are either direct or slightly tweaked TS copies.

TGP is a strange place. The posters there seem to be very selective in whom they attack. I've seen several threads where posters have asked for the best clone of a certain piece of gear, namely the aformentioned TS and even the Soldano SLO. No one from Ibanez protested all the cloners making TS copies and Mike Soldano didn't protest people making clones of his amps. No one from TPG came to the defense of Ibanez or Soldano, either.

Another thing that bothers me about the TGP is all the real Tim and Timmy pedals being sold for much more than the current retail price. I must have seen at least 10-20 in the last month. Nobody from TGP has jumped in and called the gougers on making money off of Paul's design. Paul is so backlogged with orders that anyone with a Tim or Timmy pedal can charge $75-$100 over list price and get it. All so that the buyer doesn't have to wait a few months. This hurts Paul too as the sale could have gone to him instead of making an opportunistic seller an extra $100. Where is the ethics discussion in regard to this? I've even heard sellers boast that they ordered a second pedal only to sell it and make a profit.

My understanding of the situation is that the only protection Paul has is over the name, layout and physical appearance of his product. He can't copyright a circuit. He had to have patented it. But since he didn't, he has no legal protection. I'm not a patent attorney, but looking at the circuit, I don't know if he even could have gotten a patent for it.

tung

[Spudman***]

Well said. It does seem as if folks are being overly selective. I'm glad that you said this.

I've been following this controversy on The Gear Page and freestompboxes.org, where someone reverse engineered the TO and discovered it was the same as the Timmy circuit.

I feel for Paul because I can understand how frustrated he feels in trying to feed his family with something that he designed only to have a large corporation copy it and sell it cheaper.

OTOH, I don't think it is fair to attack Danelectro for copying a circuit and not all the others who have cloned circuits (e.g. Ibanez Tube Screamer). In fact most of the "boutique" ODs are either direct or slightly tweaked TS copies.

TGP is a strange place. The posters there seem to be very selective in whom they attack. I've seen several threads where posters have asked for the best clone of a certain piece of gear, namely the aformentioned TS and even the Soldano SLO. No one from Ibanez protested all the cloners making TS copies and Mike Soldano didn't protest people making clones of his amps. No one from TPG came to the defense of Ibanez or Soldano, either.

Another thing that bothers me about the TGP is all the real Tim and Timmy pedals being sold for much more than the current retail price. I must have seen at least 10-20 in the last month. Nobody from TGP has jumped in and called the gougers on making money off of Paul's design. Paul is so backlogged with orders that anyone with a Tim or Timmy pedal can charge $75-$100 over list price and get it. All so that the buyer doesn't have to wait a few months. This hurts Paul too as the sale could have gone to him instead of making an opportunistic seller an extra $100. Where is the ethics discussion in regard to this? I've even heard sellers boast that they ordered a second pedal only to sell it and make a profit.

My understanding of the situation is that the only protection Paul has is over the name, layout and physical appearance of his product. He can't copyright a circuit. He had to have patented it. But since he didn't, he has no legal protection. I'm not a patent attorney, but looking at the circuit, I don't know if he even could have gotten a patent for it.

tung

[duhvoodooman***]

It seems to me that Paul is also ignoring the free publicity he's gotten from all this. I wonder how many people who read through that TGP thread and had never even heard of the Timmy may end up buying one, for whatever reason. Also, the "can't feed my family" comment rings a bit hollow to me, given that he has a months-long waiting list. As long as Danelectro has agreed to change the circuit (which I give them a lot of credit for doing, since there is apparently no reason that they need to do so, from a legality standpoint), I really wonder if this will hurt him at all. Until his waiting list drops to zero, he hasn't actually lost a single sale--he's selling everything he can make, until that point is reached.

[Blaze]

It seems to me that Paul is also ignoring the free publicity he's gotten from all this. I wonder how many people who read through that TGP thread and had never even heard of the Timmy may end up buying one, for whatever reason. Also, the "can't feed my family" comment rings a bit hollow to me, given that he has a months-long waiting list. As long as Danelectro has agreed to change the circuit (which I give them a lot of credit for doing, since there is apparently no reason that they need to do so, from a legality standpoint), I really wonder if this will hurt him at all. Until his waiting list drops to zero, he hasn't actually lost a single sale--he's selling everything he can make, until that point is reached.

+10