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The Great Pick/Gear Debate and the Value of the Additional Cost

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just strum

just strum

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I have (and also other have) made comments about picks and other accessories that I feel are over priced. The V pick is just one of them.

So, for the purpose of discussion I was wondering how the forum felt about the subject.

My take: Some people go out and spend an above average price for "special" accessories, yet play or plug them into $150 Squiers. Some state the Squiers (or any inexpensive guitar) sounds just as good as the more expensive models and don't see the need to buy the more expensive guitar. However, they will pay the price for the more expensive accessories.

Before I get pounced upon, I've seen this same phenomenon at a number of forums, so I am not singling out the people here.

So, your thoughts? Remember, this is discussion.
 
Being very cautious there, Strum. You would have thought most people would assume if you say something, it is your opinion. . . But not always, I guess.

I know what you mean though - and there can be a few reasons for this.

A - the difference in price between a lesser guitar, i.e. Squier, to its more expensive counterpart, i.e. Fender, can be great as opposed to the difference in price between a $1 pick and a $5 pick, even though that's actually a 500% markup.

B - some people don't like to admit they suck and try to compensate by buying more expensive, though ultimately useless (in terms of 'better' playing), gear. Following in Strum's footsteps, I don't know a single person here that does that, but rather people I've played with over the years.

C - sometimes, people may just like that expensive little pick. There's a French saying that goes something like Je ne sais quoi that sort of sums up that feeling.

All good discussion, though.

Mage
 
Is $4.00 for a pick is expensive? Compare to most pedals which we probably all buy too many of, most of them are $40.00+... I think $4.00 is a small investment for something you will enjoy using when playing guitar.

I think Squiers are underpriced. They should cost more.

Some think the $150 modeling amp sounds just as good as the $1500 dollar amp... it's all in the head and in the wallet.
 
thearabianmage said:
Being very cautious there, Strum. You would have thought most people would assume if you say something, it is your opinion. . . But not always, I guess.

Mage
Click to expand...

What do you mean by that comment. If you are trying to say something, spit it out. We are all entitled to our opinions of course, even the Administrator happens to have one. ;)
 
Robert, you and I obviously differ on the practical (using that word for lack of a better one at the moment) price for certain things with picks being one that just bugs me. The reverse is true on guitars, you feel Squiers are good and under priced, I feel they are low cost guitars and play like one.

Over at the Epiphone forum there is a running debate about epi being just as good as Gibson. I personally feel that some Epi's give Gibson a good run for the money. There is and always will be the cost of things being associated with the quality and performance of an item.

I don't see any value in a $4.00+ pick versus the $.45 to $.65 ones I picked up yesterday. Now I have no clue about the ones that you purchased recently, but I owned V pick and without question I think they are nothing more than a $.45 pick that are over hyped so they can charge more.

I'm not really taking a poke at you, but you also brought up cable, another item that seems to attract attention if it cost more, but in most cases the more costly product brings very little, if any, improvement in performance.

Now, I will give you the edge in knowledge seeing that you have played far longer than me and you have acquired far more toys than me. However, I must again remind you that I am older and therefore more apt to be right since it has been proven time after time I am never wrong.:poke:
 
Robert said:
We are all entitled to our opinions of course, even the Administrator happens to have one. ;)
Click to expand...

And I never said anyone wasn't :D


---EDIT---
Although, after reading Strum's post, I will state my own. I think that certain cables can be better than others. I used to go through 2-3 cables a year until I started forking out a bit more on them. Then I went to a standard Planet Waves cables, it went to 1 cable a year, and now that I have switched to a better quality Planet Waves, I've used the same ones for nearly 2 years with no problems. They are about £15 each and I think they are worth every penny for various reasons.
 
As a recent convert to V-Picks I can say that I know where you are coming from. I didn't see the point in spending $4 on a pick. Even after I got them I wasn't sure if they were worth it. It took me a few weeks to get use to them but I definetely have seen my picking technique improve. I actually had to adjust my picking hand position but that's a small sacrifice. I now don't find $4 all that expensive. My friend uses tortoise shell picks which cost around $50. I have never been the type of person to buy cheap equipment. That doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with less expensive gear. Spending a little more on my gear makes me feel more confident when I play. I feel like it's more reliable. I like knowing that my guitars (not my Gibson or Fenders) were crafted by a highly skilled luthier as opposed to being spit out of a machine by the thousands. None of this necessarily makes me a better player. The guitar is a hobby and a passion of mine. To me, it's worth it.
 
just strum said:
I guess my problem is understanding why one would play a cheap guitar with expensive or high end picks and cable. It's a cheap guitar, so the pick and cable aren't going to make it any better. Put that extra money towards a better guitar.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. Your signal can only be as good as it's weakest link.
 
I'll agree that good cables are money well spent but there is a limit. Very cheap cables are a waste of money in terms of life expectancy in my experience. But on the other hand, a £100 cable (and they do exist) gets you way up the diminishing returns path.
 
The V Pick is worth everything I spent on it. I love it and it will last my life time.

Strum, I think you need to get past gear issues and just focus on playing your guitar. It doesn't really matter what something costs. That is for the consumer to decide. If something bugs you then look at what doesn't bug you and pick up your guitar and play. That's really what matters most. Change your focus and improve your playing.

I don't think anything is over priced. I just stick within my budget and everything is just right.:) I have no problems making music with what I own no matter what it cost.

Cheap does not equal inferior.
 
If you will allow a newbie a few thoughts...

Spudman said:
The V Pick is worth everything I spent on it. I love it and it will last my life time.

Strum, I think you need to get past gear issues and just focus on playing your guitar.
Click to expand...

I think if we all stopped focusing on gear issues and just focus on playing, this forum would be a bit of a drag.;)

I think people are into guitar for all kinds of reasons. Some serious some not, but the gear issue is a purely personal matter I think. Sure some things are overpriced (markups that far exceed the per unit cost to manufacture and bring to market) but that's where the free market comes in.

As for the V-Pick, I had never heard of them before running into Vinni (boss of V-Pick) in mid rant about his products. "Santana buys them by the crate and says it's the only pick he'll use and I don't pay him nuthin'". etc, etc. His spiel was amazing. I was going to burst out laughing but I couldn't help admiring his old school pitch. We talked and he gave me one of his picks. Said it costs 15 dollars. I couldn't believe anyone would pay that much for a piece of plastic. Then I tried it out when I got home. Within a week I decided I cannot live without Vinni's picks. Are they overpriced? For the material costs/labor, probably. But it's a unique product that I will buy because it works for me, so it is worth the cost.

My three cents anyway.
 
Its sad that some players doesnt realize what difference in sound/feeling a good pick can do...

I sometimes play with a coin when I want that fat Albert King sound, and playing around with different picks can be just as fun as a new pedal.

Speaking of the V-picks, I got one from Vinnie and I really like it..
 
just strum said:
I guess my problem is understanding why one would play a cheap guitar with expensive or high end picks and cable. It's a cheap guitar, so the pick and cable aren't going to make it any better. Put that extra money towards a better guitar.
Click to expand...

That is because nobody is perfect and desires and wishes vary from time to time. When GAS enters the head no concious decision can be made. Example: You have a 150USD Squier and then GAS hit you on a cool T-Rex Spin Doctor Pedal that cost twice if not three times as much or you read something about better sound with more expensive cables...Sometimes the priorities we guitarists set are chaotic and lead by GAS, but that is what makes the magic with our hobby/passion. No rules here. Maybe the Squier guy never felt the need for another guitar because it sounds great, but he always had issues with his overdrive pedal and then he buys some boutique overdrive. Absolutely okay, as long as it makes him happy. :AOK:

Regarding the 4$ for a pick. Well, same thing, there is people who spent 4$ for cigarettes, so what, try the 4$ pick and decide for yourself if it worth spending the 4$.
 
just strum said:
I guess my problem is understanding why one would play a cheap guitar with expensive or high end picks and cable. It's a cheap guitar, so the pick and cable aren't going to make it any better. Put that extra money towards a better guitar.
Click to expand...
Picks can change the tone & picking dynamics of any guitar.

One can emphasize the high frequencies, one can lend itself more to smooth, fast playing with a fatter tone.

Yes, if you are playing a a not so good guitar the former will emphasize the high frequencies of that guitar & the the other its the darker tones--& you might not like either of these. I'd be very surprised if anyone would claim that a pick could transform sh!t into gold.

On the other hand, one can easily see the use in difference in emphasis, speed, ease of grip, etc regardless of the guitar. If $4 can get you some of that, it seems worth it to me.

No big deal if you tried one such choice & found no difference in any of the subtleties mentioned above.

That said you can get a heck of a lot of mileage from whatever pick you happen to be using by varying pick attack angle & where you pick, over neck pup, behind the bridge, in the middle, down the neck, etc. I can't play worth beans, but it sounds different to play beansless near the neck than by the bridge.
 
I don't have a V pick or really nice pick, but like to try different picks and do not doubt anyone who says they make a difference to them. Among the less expensive picks I have tried, I really like some and really dislike others. I dislike dunlop nylon style, really like tortex, and fender heavys, and now am leaning toward Dunlop Ultex with the rhino on them. They seem bright and articulate. I bet I try one of these more expensive ones one of these days.

As we know from this forum, you can find some great values in the inexpensive lines like Squire, SX, Xaviere, etc. and you still need a good picking surface that works for you. Both physical effects, and confidence are affected. And you need decent enough cables that don't add noise, impair signal etc. Livewires are a little more than the cheapest and seem to do the job for me.

But playing more would make the most difference for me I think.
 
Last edited:
Veering off-subject a bit, I see some backward similarities with some motorcycle riders:

Super-expensive new (or near-new) bikes... and extremely poor to-non-existent essential safety gear, and often rider skills!

(Not even the $25 leather H-D work gloves... people never heard of tendon surgery and gravel removal, I guess)
 
This discussion reminds me how "personal" playing guitar is. Bass players, drummers, keyboard players, just don't seem to have this emotional/personal attachment to the instrument. I've watched a zillion jams over the years and have never seen a guitar player borrow an axe to join the jam. Yet bass players often do, drummers, keyboard guys always. I've seen all kinds of singers join a jam, have never seen one bring there own mic. So.... all these little things like choice of picks, strings (Strums fave subject), pickups etc.. are part of the phenomenon.

Buying a $4 pic is also a small indulgence if you will. Can't drop a fortune for a vintage Les Paul or pre war Martin, but I can have the absolute best pick. Sort of like spending $4 for a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
 
Strum's topic was picks and OTHER over priced gear. What I can't understand is the ridiculous price of some of the straps that people are buying. I guess they're the same ones who buy overpriced jeans that already worn out and $30,000+ vehicles to get 5 more miles to gallon or even RELICED GUITARS. :D

Just my two cents (make it 5 with inflation.) :D
 
bigoldron said:
Strum's topic was picks and OTHER over priced gear. What I can't understand is the ridiculous price of some of the straps that people are buying. I guess they're the same ones who buy overpriced jeans that already worn out and $30,000+ vehicles to get 5 more miles to gallon or even RELICED GUITARS. :D

Just my two cents (make it 5 with inflation.) :D
Click to expand...

I agree with this. The Van Halen Peavey straps are a little overboard at $150.
 
evenkeel said:
This discussion reminds me how "personal" playing guitar is. Bass players, drummers, keyboard players, just don't seem to have this emotional/personal attachment to the instrument. I've watched a zillion jams over the years and have never seen a guitar player borrow an axe to join the jam. Yet bass players often do, drummers, keyboard guys always. I've seen all kinds of singers join a jam, have never seen one bring there own mic. So.... all these little things like choice of picks, strings (Strums fave subject), pickups etc.. are part of the phenomenon.
Click to expand...
I'll agree that in my limited experience that bass players tend to be more laid back about these sorts of things, but just peruse the TalkBass forums sometime and you'll see GAS and related insanities are alive and well in the bass world. Post a thread about whether SX basses are any good or not, sit back, and watch the show.
 
The only person a player's gear has to please is the player - be it over the top, boutique, expensive, cheap, or "spark-o-matic". If the player feels good about his gear, it's all good........................even if the player is playing a '59 Les Paul with $300 cables through a Super Skull Splitter spark-o-matic amp.

A player needs only to justify his gear to himself.
 
Spudman said:
Cheap does not equal inferior.
Click to expand...

Words of wisdom right there Spud. :)

I have two friends that are professional musicians, both of whom have owned dozens of guitars and played hundreds of others ranging from the super-cheap to the super-boutique. Both of them insist that my $125 Squire Strat is one of the best-playing Strats they've ever picked up.

As far as other gear goes, it's all dependent on what it is you're actually looking for in a sound. I have a lot of affinity for some bands with a very lo-fi sound. If they were more polished and clean, they wouldn't appeal to me at all. This is not the case with everything I listen to, but it makes the point that not everybody is looking for the same clarity in their sound.
 
Plank_Spanker said:
The only person a player's gear has to please is the player - be it over the top, boutique, expensive, cheap, or "spark-o-matic". If the player feels good about his gear, it's all good........................even if the player is playing a '59 Les Paul with $300 cables through a Super Skull Splitter spark-o-matic amp.

A player needs only to justify his gear to himself.
Click to expand...

You are a sage. Very nicely put.:AOK:

ps. where do I find this Super Skull Splitter Spark-o-matic?
 
Spudman said:
Strum, I think you need to get past gear issues and just focus on playing your guitar. It doesn't really matter what something costs. That is for the consumer to decide. If something bugs you then look at what doesn't bug you and pick up your guitar and play. That's really what matters most. Change your focus and improve your playing.
Click to expand...

No, I don't have a gear issue as you see it. I am questioning the value of various gear as it relates to the end product/results. Having a gear issue would be someone that wets themselves every time they buy something that is even remotely related to the guitar.

I guess because I don't drool over the same product, I therefore am not following the forum line. Expressing anything outside of the "accepted" then becomes the unacceptable and an attempt to shut down the "DISCUSSION" follows.

I question a product and you attack my practice habits?

It's just a discussion about why and why not a product or products might be worth the value.
 
just strum said:
I guess because I don't drool over the same product, I therefore am not following the forum line. Expressing anything outside of the "accepted" then becomes the unacceptable and an attempt to shut down the "DISCUSSION" follows.
Click to expand...

I respect you more and more everyday it seems. :master:

Im diggin the whole cost vs value topic.
But in the case of Squiers, you can let low cost dictate value...they really are great guitars and Id even go as far as to say underpriced.
But conversely a $4 pick or $150 strap doesnt dictate value either.
 
Guys, take a chill pill. It's just a discussion topic, not a presidential debate. Remember, Santa Claus is watching you!!!
 
See, I tend to make my vote with my wallet. I simply don't buy items that seem overinflated for the job that they do.

A $5,000.00 PRS? Probably won't buy one, no matter how well they play.

A $500.00-600.00 PRS SE model? You bet, because they play great and are solid, well built guitars.

Others may disagree, and state that the higher price is justified for them. That's cool, it just ain't for me.

I play the picks that I play because I've tried a bunch of different thicknesses and materials over the years, and the ones that I like work best for me.

HOWEVER....

If I find a product that does its job so well, and is more durable than the competition, but is priced higher, I may save a little extra to afford that product.

In other words, I can see myself playing on a Squier (or an Epi, or an SX, et cetera) with other, more expensive equipment if the product does what I want it to do. It's all about function.
 

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