Are supergroups/collaborations centered around the guitarist?

Eric · Nov 18, 2010

Lately I've been listening to a couple of supergroup side projects, Them Crooked Vultures (Josh Homme, Dave Grohl, John Paul Jones) and The Jelly Jam (Ty Tabor, John Myung, Rod Morgenstein).

What I've found in listening to any rock-oriented supergroup/collaboration/side project is that it usually sounds an awful lot like whatever band the guitarist is from. In these two instances, they sound very very similar to Queens of the Stone Age and King's X, respectively. I suppose this is bolstered by the fact that the primary vocals also come from the guitarists, who both sing in their main bands.

Do you also find this when you hear collaborations? Do the similarities to the original groups tend to follow whoever is playing guitar? Vocals? Other?

I always thought that, despite how every guitarist thinks the world revolves around them, groups were usually characterized by their drums and bass more than anything else. If groups do tend to sound like whoever is playing guitar, I might have to revise my theories.

Any thoughts on this?

Spudman · Nov 19, 2010

I think Chickenfoot is not really Joe central, but probably Sammy/Mike central. Also, Agents of Mercy and Transatlantic are pretty much 'supergroups' and they are not really Roine Stolt centric either. They function and sound mostly like a band.

Black Country Communion sounds very much like a Glenn Hughes album and not a Joe Bonamassa record.

I think it probably just depends on all the personnel which voice is going to be noticed the most. I've heard Zach Wylde with Derek Sherinian and it could go either way there because they both are strong musical voices. Same with Richard Andersson and Yngwie. It could go either way there too.

BTW - Jelly Jam is good stuff. If you like that then check out Platypus

Jx2 · Nov 19, 2010

I think it depends on who's who. I think the reason Chickenfoot sound so much like Van Halen is because of Sammy and Mike. Afterall I think Joe was the last one on board.

Down to me has always had a unique NOLA Sludge groove to it. You have to rember Down was orginaly a super group. But I think their sound comes more from the collection of NOLA musicians more so than Kirk's(Crowbar) guitar.

It probably has to do alot with who's driving the boat. Just look at some non-supergroup supergroups...i.e. Velvet Revolver and Alter Bridge. It could be very easy for these bands to sound alot like their beginnings but while both bring those elements they dont sound dead up like GnR or Creed. Im sure if Satch and Chad started Chickenfoot and brough Sammy and Mike in it would sound diffrent.

Katastrophe · Nov 19, 2010

An ideal supergroup would sound like a band, with it's own unique voice.

However, I think that most sound like the frontman's personality. But, that's the hallmark of a good frontman, to me.

I think, though, that if Yngwie were to have a supergroup, it would just sound like Yngwie. His style is so forceful that it's hard for it to sound like anything else.

I think Yellow Matter Custard (Mike Portnoy, Paul Gilbert, Neal Morse, Matt Bissonette) sounded like a cohesive unit, but then again, they were doing Beatles tunes.

Eric · Nov 19, 2010

Katastrophe said:
I think Yellow Matter Custard (Mike Portnoy, Paul Gilbert, Neal Morse, Matt Bissonette) sounded like a cohesive unit, but then again, they were doing Beatles tunes.

That was pretty cool -- even the freakout at the end sounded good.

Jimi75 · Nov 19, 2010

Good thread, good thesis! :applause

I think the last breed of a supergroup was/is Black Country Communion and this band doesn't sound anything like Joe Bonamassa. It's a perfect mixture of all musicians in the band.

I know what you mean Eric and it's true that in most cases the band sound much like the guitarist, especially when the side projects are instrumental bands. But in cases like for e.g. John Petrucci of Dreamtheater we are talking about a very strong guitarist with a very unique style and sound. I doubt that most of the players can hide their trademarks.

Eric · Jan 12, 2011

Katastrophe said:
I think Yellow Matter Custard (Mike Portnoy, Paul Gilbert, Neal Morse, Matt Bissonette) sounded like a cohesive unit, but then again, they were doing Beatles tunes.

If all goes according to plan, I'll get to see these guys next month! :happy

Katastrophe · Jan 13, 2011

Awesome! That should be a really fun show.

Retro Hound · Jan 13, 2011

The Firm sounded NOTHING like Led Zeppelin.

kidsmoke · Jan 13, 2011

Retro Hound said:
The Firm sounded NOTHING like Led Zeppelin.

word!

supergroup members know what they are doing, and what they're after, and I think it is more about intent than accident....whereas to Eric's point that the rhythm section "creates" a bands sound....I'd buy that to a large degree as well, during the "creation" stage! In my mind that's before any of the members are "supergroup" eligible. Once they become "branded" it's hard to venture too far from that identity.

for sure, Page is given major props for Zeppelin's sound, but JPJ and Bonham were the frame, the foundation.

There was a "supergrpoup" called Little Village; Nick Lowe, Ry Cooder, John Hiatt, and Jim Keltner. I'd say they sounded very little like any of the individuals prior incarnations, even though they formed around a Hiatt recording project initially. Then again, none of those guys has a "sound" that is instantly recognizable like Zep, Queens of the Stone Age, etc. They're songwriters/composers first.

Interesting topic.

Perfect Stranger · Jan 13, 2011

I've always been amazed how supergroups very seldom turn out very super.:whatever:

Spudman · Jan 13, 2011

Eric said:
If all goes according to plan, I'll get to see these guys next month! :happy

Which show are you going to? I think Kassim is going to be the perfect addition.

FrankenFretter · Jan 13, 2011

It's funny Eric; sometimes I can just read the title of the thread and know you're the one that posted it. You have the ability to provoke thought/discussion with your posts.

The first group that came to mind when I read the title was TCV, but I see that's already been discussed. What about Eagles of Death Metal, since we're talking about Josh Homme? They don't sound that much like QOTSA, although the Josh Homme factor is audible in everything he does, I think. I guess the other question would be whether or not the EoDM are a supergroup at all, considering it's really just Josh and Jesse Hughes.

Other than the Josh Homme "supergroups", I don't much care for supergroups as a rule. I did, however, once see a band called Supagroup. They were awesome, and really nice guys in real life.

Digression now finished.

guitartango · Jan 13, 2011

Katastrophe said:
I think Yellow Matter Custard (Mike Portnoy, Paul Gilbert, Neal Morse, Matt Bissonette) sounded like a cohesive unit, but then again, they were doing Beatles tunes.

Just checked out the version of "while my guitar"..... another brilliant version.

Eric · Jan 15, 2011

Spudman said:
Which show are you going to? I think Kassim is going to be the perfect addition.

This one.

NWBasser · Jan 15, 2011

Eric said:
I always thought that, despite how every guitarist thinks the world revolves around them, groups were usually characterized by their drums and bass more than anything else. If groups do tend to sound like whoever is playing guitar, I might have to revise my theories.

Any thoughts on this?

IMO, for rock-oriented music the bass/drums are supporting whatever the guitar is doing. I think that most of the composition work is done by the guitarist and the bass/drums follow that. A bass player may develop their own lines/parts within the frameowork established by the guitar. Not many bass players or drummers doing the song writing and arrangements in that sort of genre. In a rock-styled "supergroup" setting, you could likely switch in different bass players/drummers without nearly as much effect as switching the guitarist(s).

I think you have to look at jazz/fusion, funk, & reggae to find bass/drum band leaders/composers.

oldguy · Jan 16, 2011

Are supergroups/collaborations centered around the guitarist?

Yes, or occasionally the cowbell player. Sometimes it's a collaboration.

Are supergroups/collaborations centered around the guitarist?

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